The Game Concept

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Trip
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Re: The Game Concept

#26

Post by Trip » Thu Aug 17, 2017 5:36 pm

ShadoWarrior wrote:
Thu Aug 17, 2017 5:27 pm
Morality is a worse mechanic, by far, IMO. The whole increase or decrease in Morality based on a random roll is poorly conceived. Seriously. If you accrue no Conflict (which means the GM is doing a poor job of forcing, pun intended, situations in which your Jedi has no choice but to do questionable things) then you're guaranteed to gain Morality. Basically, you gain Morality by not being bad, not by being good. That's fundamentally flawed. Worse, the amount of Morality you gain is random. Aron Lightwalker steals something and earns 1 conflict. When it's time to assess the consequences of Aron's acts his player rolls a 3 and gains 2 Morality. Later on Aron steals again, and this time when consequences are assessed the player is lucky and rolls a 9. Aron gains a whopping 8 Morality. Aron's not a particularly ethical person, but according to FFG he's now halfway to being a light side paragon. This mechanic is messed up. Quite a few people on the FFG board have noted this problem. The official answer is, of course, for the GM to inflict more ethical dilemmas on the Force users, or situations in which players must resort to using DS pips. Railroading players so that a game mechanic works as intended is not a good (let alone fair) solution to a crappy game design. The inclusion of ethical dilemmas should be a natural part of the story, if the story is supposed to have any at all, not crammed in just to balance game mechanics. And I especially don't like the randomness of Morality changes. How much your Morality changes shouldn't be random.
[/rant]
Sounds like you need to develop a house rule that I can shamelessly copy for my game. 😁

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Re: The Game Concept

#27

Post by ShadoWarrior » Thu Aug 17, 2017 5:44 pm

When I think of something, or find something that someone else has done that I agree with, you and the rest of the players in my AtF game will know.

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The good guys.

#28

Post by DeepSpacer » Thu Aug 17, 2017 7:54 pm

Okay, it seems like a major theme of this group will be non-violence. Since we are good guys, when law enforcement catches up with us then we can't actually just kill them off just because we're truly innocent. It true A-team fashion, we need other ways to get out of things with law enforcement. Would that be the case?

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Re: The good guys.

#29

Post by Trip » Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:06 pm

DeepSpacer wrote:
Thu Aug 17, 2017 7:54 pm
Okay, it seems like a major theme of this group will be non-violence. Since we are good guys, when law enforcement catches up with us then we can't actually just kill them off just because we're truly innocent. It true A-team fashion, we need other ways to get out of things with law enforcement. Would that be the case?
That is true. If you notice, when reviewing the careers, I eliminated ones that were on the darker side. If you ever saw the real A-Team, no one ever was killed, even by accident. The jeep does 60 flips and smashes head on into a concrete wall, and the people walk way. That is kind of how this will work. Although, it is loosely based on the A-Team. So you may still have to kill the true baddies.

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Re: The Game Concept

#30

Post by ShadoWarrior » Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:16 pm

The original A-team aired on broadcast TV during an era when there were more stringent limits as to what you were permitted to show during primetime hours than the laxer rules today that allow for vastly more violence and foul language.

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Re: The Game Concept

#31

Post by DeepSpacer » Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:25 pm

Yeah, but let's not kid ourselves. Innocent good guys won't go around offing other good guys.

Does this mean that there is a wookie brawler who is afraid to fly? I think I might work up a Wookie brawler in age of rebellion to see what it might look like.

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Re: The Game Concept

#32

Post by swrider » Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:32 pm

Good guys should always seek to capture the bad guys and bring them to justice. There is a difference between murder, killing, and self defense.
The first is never an option. The second should be avoided at all costs. The third leaves you no other options.

I have started a thread to work on these rules. I would love everyone insights especially since we are all GMs and have a decent amount of experience between us.

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Re: The Game Concept

#33

Post by Trip » Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:33 pm

DeepSpacer wrote:
Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:25 pm
Yeah, but let's not kid ourselves. Innocent good guys won't go around offing other good guys.

Does this mean that there is a wookie brawler who is afraid to fly? I think I might work up a Wookie brawler in age of rebellion to see what it might look like.
That would be funny.

If he was a wookie

Or if you decided to go human?

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Re: The Game Concept

#34

Post by DeepSpacer » Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:03 pm

Might be a place for a Rigger (AofR) since they always fixed up custom vehicles. I think I'll work up that Wookie and maybe a commander-type.

My IRL friend, Skip, plays a notorious Jawa. He suggested a cigar-smoking Jawa as the leader to go with the Wookie Brawler.

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Re: The Game Concept

#35

Post by DeepSpacer » Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:47 pm

One thing that hit me tonight was being an Alpha Squad but being "1st-level", or beginner characters. Escaped a prison transport. Betrayed by a general, like we're good enough to be around one. Just doesn't seem that we'd be main people yet. But, we're starting with a reputation. Thoughts?

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Re: The Game Concept

#36

Post by swrider » Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:58 pm

I had mentioned this before that it seems like a concept best fit for a higher xp game, but that is harder to control. It can be handled either way as FFG does not specify what is in that initial 100 or so XP a character gets.

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100

#37

Post by DeepSpacer » Thu Aug 17, 2017 11:23 pm

I prefer doling out no more than 20-30 extra xp to a beginning character. I mean, 75xp can get you straight down to Dedication without playing a lick. I'd probably top out at 30 (max) since it gets you to a 3rd level of a Tree. With generous xp, you can get to dedication by the 3rd adventure. Some look at building up a character as part of the reward, while others don't want to wait and prefer 50 or 100+ bonus xp to start. One thing with FFG SW is that once you start hitting 20-25xp Talent rows, you start spending that XP on one thing whereas a newer PC is buying about 3-4 things with 20-25XP. It just feels richer.

For this game, perhaps we were the *new* recruits who were framed. Perhaps we don't even know who framed us? Perhaps we're not that veteran, expert team to begin with? We could be the newbies who were set up. Newbies, but some modest experience and hence: beginning characters.

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Re: The Game Concept

#38

Post by swrider » Fri Aug 18, 2017 12:43 am

I don't know if trip would be up to this but one solution which might solve the problem of starting too high with the issue of a lack of xp countering that feel is to back the story up slightly and let us play out the mission where we are betrayed. This would also make the betrayal more personal to the PCs.

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Re: The Game Concept

#39

Post by Trip » Fri Aug 18, 2017 12:56 am

Both ideas are great. I think we can have the backstory as new recruits getting framed. Face is in the cantina to start, but he can "flashback" thinking how in the world did we get here? then flashback to the betrayal. That will be a bit more work for me to plan out but it would be fun.

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Re: The Game Concept

#40

Post by Trip » Fri Aug 18, 2017 1:19 am

Hey guys, I need to rewrite the backstory. I am way off. The sacking of Coruscant was the end of the war, not the beginning. Just some minor adjustments. But I wanted to tell you before Shado read it and had an aneurism. 😋

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Re: The Game Concept

#41

Post by ShadoWarrior » Fri Aug 18, 2017 5:29 am

I think that you've confused the attack on the Jedi Temple on Coruscant, which was shown in the promo video when SWTOR was first released with a later sacking of the planet (which I didn't even know about as I quit playing SWTOR several years ago). The attack on the temple was the Sith's opening move in the war. It was portrayed as a Pearl Harbor-type event. The Republic thought that peace had been negotiated with the Sith and the Sith took advantage to strike with total surprise right at the heart of their enemy: the center of Jedi power, the main temple.

Actually a better analogy is the agreement between Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union shortly before the outbreak of WW2. Which the Germans broke less than two years later with a surprise attack on the Russians. (It wasn't a surprise to the Brits, who had read Enigma-encoded messages related to the invasion prep, but Stalin didn't believe the Brits when they tried to warn Stalin.)

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Re: The Game Concept

#42

Post by swrider » Fri Aug 18, 2017 2:48 pm

Trip,

This is a bit premature but you are going to want to start thinking about how you would like to display your destiny pool.

Shado has a good set up in his games.

I used a link generator on my website which allows players to simply click a link and is posted in the "forum rules" section which appears at the top of the OOC thread. It also records the last time an action taken with the destiny pool. Both are good options.

A third option is if you want to update it yourself in an individual thread I can link that to the "Forum Rules" section. If you take the third option though I request the post not be too long as it will appear at the top of every page within the forum (I chose the discussion forum for my game). This option would allow you to also you to post additional information that would appear at the top of the page if you felt it were necessary.
I was playing around with this option and it only puts a hyperlink to the forum in the rules section. It is still an option but will not do what I had previously promised.


Please advise.

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Re: The Game Concept

#43

Post by Trip » Fri Aug 18, 2017 9:36 pm

I think for now I will just copy Shado's "Who's turn is it?" post.

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Re: The Game Concept

#44

Post by Trip » Sat Aug 19, 2017 2:04 am

ShadoWarrior wrote:
Fri Aug 18, 2017 5:29 am
I think that you've confused the attack on the Jedi Temple on Coruscant, which was shown in the promo video when SWTOR was first released with a later sacking of the planet (which I didn't even know about as I quit playing SWTOR several years ago). The attack on the temple was the Sith's opening move in the war. It was portrayed as a Pearl Harbor-type event. The Republic thought that peace had been negotiated with the Sith and the Sith took advantage to strike with total surprise right at the heart of their enemy: the center of Jedi power, the main temple.

Actually a better analogy is the agreement between Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union shortly before the outbreak of WW2. Which the Germans broke less than two years later with a surprise attack on the Russians. (It wasn't a surprise to the Brits, who had read Enigma-encoded messages related to the invasion prep, but Stalin didn't believe the Brits when they tried to warn Stalin.)
I re-read the story line for the attack on the Temple. It was at the end of the war. They did it so that the Republic would be forced to accept the unfavorable terms. Once the treaty was signed, it was the beginning of the Cold War.

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Re: The Game Concept

#45

Post by ShadoWarrior » Sat Aug 19, 2017 2:11 am

SWTOR is a cold war? There's a helluva a lot of Jedi-Sith conflict in SWTOR, including PvP. But I suppose you're right. As I said, it's been years since I last played. I've forgotten the premise. Thanks for setting me straight.

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Re: The Game Concept

#46

Post by Trip » Sat Aug 19, 2017 2:18 am

ShadoWarrior wrote:
Sat Aug 19, 2017 2:11 am
SWTOR is a cold war? There's a helluva a lot of Jedi-Sith conflict in SWTOR, including PvP. But I suppose you're right. As I said, it's been years since I last played. I've forgotten the premise. Thanks for setting me straight.
As you get closer to the end of the first release, then...
Spoiler:
everything goes to hell in a handbasket and the treaty is broken. It is all out war after that. That happens in the lvl 40ish area.

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Re: The Game Concept

#47

Post by ShadoWarrior » Sat Aug 19, 2017 2:26 am

I have/had more than one light side level 50-55 character in the game. I vaguely recall the war-ravaged planets where we finally directly face off against Sith troops and Sith FUs.

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Re: The Game Concept

#48

Post by Trip » Sat Aug 19, 2017 2:40 am

I am a big fan of SWTOR, but it gets boring after awhile. The FFG games are waaaay more fun.

Oh, and I despise PVP.

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Re: The Game Concept

#49

Post by swrider » Sat Aug 19, 2017 2:43 am

Trip wrote:
Sat Aug 19, 2017 2:40 am
I am a big fan of SWTOR, but it gets boring after awhile. The FFG games are waaaay more fun.

Oh, and I despise PVP.
So what exactly is going on in FoF then?

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Re: The Game Concept

#50

Post by ShadoWarrior » Sat Aug 19, 2017 2:44 am

No one has actually attacked another PC in FoF. Not yet, despite your fondest desires.

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