Operation Medusa Discussion.

Post Reply
User avatar
swrider
ISB Deputy Director
Posts: 7524
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2017 2:36 am
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Operation Medusa Discussion.

#1

Post by swrider » Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:52 pm

Note we are not yet done in the other section, but are getting close. This is for the next section.

Now that we are done with the introductory game (training) it is time to prepare and begin your first mission. We will begin by completing your stage 3 character creation. This will be done in a few steps.
  1. Pick two specializations (Skill groups see third post in this thread). There are the unique training skills that the SOE provided you with. Agents were specialized and did not receive advanced training in every area. The conditional modifier for skills in this group is 3d10 (unless higher already due to being a background skill) and the skill level is 30 (unless already higher, see below).
  2. Add all remaining skills to your skill list
  3. Any skill which is not a general skill, a background skill, a paramilitary or survival skill, or one of your two specialization skills gets a conditional modifier of 1d10.
  4. Adjust skill as necessary to; make all skills equal to or higher than their conditional dice (e.g. a 2d10 skill has skill rank 20), any skill which is currently higher than its conditional dice add +5 above and beyond your current skill level. Any skill witch you increased during training increase to their conditional modifier +5. So 2d10 +15 would become 2d10+25.
  5. Create your characters "Legend". This is their cover identity. A cover for all of your background skills and all of the items in your background should be created. Additionally, you will need to create specifics for your covers current status.
    where did your character come from?
    How did your character get to Paris?
    What are you doing in Paris?
    Who is the last person who can personally vouch for you at the above locations?
    Where are you staying in Paris?
The IC will begin with you being briefed on your mission. I need to know player preferences for a few thing.
  1. Would you like to role play infiltrating the country (by parachute/ on land/ on sea?) or would you like to start the game just after your arrival.

User avatar
SavageBob
Jedi Initiate
Posts: 3913
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2017 1:27 am
Location: Virginia

Re: Operation Medusa Discussion.

#2

Post by SavageBob » Mon Sep 09, 2019 6:57 pm

1. What are the available specializations? Is it the various skills?

4. Thanks to training, I have Hand-to-Hand 4d10+52. Are you saying to add another +5 on top of this?

As for roleplaying the infiltration, that could take weeks in PbP format. I'd rather start at the beginning of the actual mission.

User avatar
swrider
ISB Deputy Director
Posts: 7524
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2017 2:36 am
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Operation Medusa Discussion.

#3

Post by swrider » Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:31 pm

The skills are broken down into specializations in this thread viewtopic.php?f=207&t=914

copied below.
Available specializations are highlighted in Red

Current Skill list.
  • General skils NOT AVAILABLE AS SPECIALIZATION
    • Charm
    • Lie
    • Mechanics
    • Athletics
    • Motor
    • Observation
    • Drawing
    • Memorization
    • Description
  • Demolitions
    • Explosive handling
    • Fuse Setting
    • Homemade Explosives
    • Defuse Explosives
  • Wireless Transmission
    • Morse Transmission
    • Morse Receiving
    • Encryption
    • Decryption
  • Burglary
    • Lockpick
    • Copy Key
    • Search Person
    • Search House
    • Pickpocket
  • Paramilitary Skills NOT AVAILABLE AS SPECIALIZATION
    • Hand to hand combat
    • Stealth Killing
    • Pistols
    • Rifle
    • Sub-machine Gun
    • Grenades
    • Military Weapons * Only if called for on planned mission
    • Weapon maintenance
    • Construct fighting position
    • Stealth Movements
    • Navigation
    • Calculate Azimuth
  • Propaganda
    • Counterfeiting
    • Photography
    • tbd
  • Medical
    • First Aid
    • Medicine
    • Surgery
    • Chemistry
  • Survival NOT AVAILABLE AS SPECIALIZATION
    • First Aid
    • Camouflage Self
    • Camouflage Equipment
    • Concealment
    • Expression manipulation and control
    • Pick handcuffs
    • Alibi
    • Disguise
  • Surveillance
    • Urban stealth movements
    • Counter Surveillance
    • Observation
    • Identify Target Motivations
    • Interrogation

User avatar
swrider
ISB Deputy Director
Posts: 7524
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2017 2:36 am
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Operation Medusa Discussion.

#4

Post by swrider » Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:32 pm

SavageBob wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 6:57 pm

4. Thanks to training, I have Hand-to-Hand 4d10+52. Are you saying to add another +5 on top of this?

As for roleplaying the infiltration, that could take weeks in PbP format. I'd rather start at the beginning of the actual mission.
That is correct since you have a higher than 40 you would simply at +5 to that. So it would be 57 when you go on your mission.

I am inclined to agree with you about the infiltration, but thought I would give the option.

User avatar
swrider
ISB Deputy Director
Posts: 7524
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2017 2:36 am
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Operation Medusa Discussion.

#5

Post by swrider » Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:37 pm

@SavageBob you can prepare the changes now, but please don't make them until we are finished in the other thread. For your skill levels that is, the rest can be added immediately. I hope to finish up the other thread this week.

User avatar
ShadoWarrior
Dark Lord of the Sith
Posts: 5315
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2017 4:22 pm
Location: Florida Space Coast

Re: Operation Medusa Discussion.

#6

Post by ShadoWarrior » Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:48 pm

Your instructions regarding specialization aren't sufficiently clear. Adding 1d10 or +5 is for all skills that are NOT specializations. Let's say that I wish to specialize in Observation. My current skill is 2d10+47. What happens to that? Or for one of the players who chose First Aid as a background skill (4d10), if they wanted to make First Aid also a specialization.

BTW, I'd prefer to do the infiltration. There'd be a LOT of stuff going on, and skills checks, between wherever we land and finally reaching Paris. I agree that this would take months (not weeks) of real time. But infiltration itself is arguably the most dangerous part of the mission. Just glossing over it seems wrong. Not to mention all the juicy roleplay that we can have as the characters get to really bond as a team. And let's not forget the skill rolls (my crappy luck with d100s can't last forever).

User avatar
swrider
ISB Deputy Director
Posts: 7524
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2017 2:36 am
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Operation Medusa Discussion.

#7

Post by swrider » Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:54 pm

ShadoWarrior wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:48 pm
Your instructions regarding specialization aren't sufficiently clear. Adding 1d10 or +5 is for all skills that are NOT specializations. Let's say that I wish to specialize in Observation. My current skill is 2d10+47. What happens to that? Or for one of the players who chose First Aid as a background skill (4d10), if they wanted to make First Aid also a specialization.

BTW, I'd prefer to do the infiltration. There'd be a LOT of stuff going on, and skills checks, between wherever we land and finally reaching Paris. I agree that this would take months (not weeks) of real time. But infiltration itself is arguably the most dangerous part of the mission. Just glossing over it seems wrong. Not to mention all the juicy roleplay that we can have as the characters get to really bond as a team. And let's not forget the skill rolls (my crappy luck with d100s can't last forever).
OK so the confusion is in the first statement the 1d10 is for any skill that is not a background skill, a general skill, a paramilitary skill, a survivial skill, or one of your two specilizations.
The specialization skills will be assigned as 3d10 +30 (If they are not already higher, as in a background skill also). I will edit that into my post above as I don't think I mentioned it.

The + 5 is for any skill you already have that exceeded what the bump would make it. So if you had a skill that was rolled as 3d10 +20 you would bump it to 3d10+30. However, if that same skill was currently at 3d10+30 (or higher) you would add 5 to the skill level.

You don't specialize in a specific skill, but a skill group. The group categories are listed in my above post with the skills belonging to those categories listed below them. Some skills are in multiple categories.

Let me know if this clears things up or if you have more questions.

User avatar
SavageBob
Jedi Initiate
Posts: 3913
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2017 1:27 am
Location: Virginia

Re: Operation Medusa Discussion.

#8

Post by SavageBob » Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:01 pm

If a skill is both a background skill and a specialization skill, how does that stack? Just the higher of the two options? In that case, what's the benefit of having a background skill as a specialization skill, if any?

User avatar
swrider
ISB Deputy Director
Posts: 7524
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2017 2:36 am
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Operation Medusa Discussion.

#9

Post by swrider » Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:08 pm

SavageBob wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:01 pm
If a skill is both a background skill and a specialization skill, how does that stack? Just the higher of the two options? In that case, what's the benefit of having a background skill as a specialization skill, if any?

The higher of the two options. From a mechanical perspective the only real benefit is that you gain the extra 1d10 conditional die and character creation is the only time those are modified... with one exception. A GM may allow training in an additional specialty between missions if that training is required fro a new mission (Basically a GM can reward a new specialization between missions if they desire).

The way it worked in the real SOE is that they chose your specializations for you based upon the mission you were being groomed for and your background. However, I felt that having a GM assign a specialization would be problematic. I think it would enhance realism and role play to pick a specialization that made use of some of your background skills. Most specializations have multiple skills so you will pick up some extra skills through training.

I had toyed with granting an additional 1d10 conditional die for skills that are both background and specialization, but thought it would be too much. I am open to others opinions on this topic though.

User avatar
ShadoWarrior
Dark Lord of the Sith
Posts: 5315
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2017 4:22 pm
Location: Florida Space Coast

Re: Operation Medusa Discussion.

#10

Post by ShadoWarrior » Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:21 pm

There are very few skills eligible to be specializations that my character would be interested in picking. Half are already at 3d10+10, so they'd become 3d10+30. The remainder are 2d10+10, which would get bumped up to 3d10+30. I chose my background skills because that's what I wanted the character to specialize in. Another +5 seems pretty paltry for one of a character's main skills if they're specialized in it compared to any other professional at that same skill. IOW, if my character is a marksman, he'd be +5 better than any other trained grunt (since all trained grunts should have Rifle as a background skill). Just doesn't make a lot of sense. I know you're trying to balance the game, but this is a tad cautious.

By automatically ruling out half of the skills, especially the half involved in being a soldier, you've especially skewed the game away from my character concept: sniper.

And you didn't answer my question re: Gavin's Observation skill. It's 2d10+47. Does it become 3d10+52 if I picked that?

User avatar
swrider
ISB Deputy Director
Posts: 7524
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2017 2:36 am
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Operation Medusa Discussion.

#11

Post by swrider » Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:54 pm

ShadoWarrior wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:21 pm
There are very few skills eligible to be specializations that my character would be interested in picking. Half are already at 3d10+10, so they'd become 3d10+30. The remainder are 2d10+10, which would get bumped up to 3d10+30. I chose my background skills because that's what I wanted the character to specialize in. Another +5 seems pretty paltry for one of a character's main skills if they're specialized in it compared to any other professional at that same skill. IOW, if my character is a marksman, he'd be +5 better than any other trained grunt (since all trained grunts should have Rifle as a background skill). Just doesn't make a lot of sense. I know you're trying to balance the game, but this is a tad cautious.

By automatically ruling out half of the skills, especially the half involved in being a soldier, you've especially skewed the game away from my character concept: sniper.

And you didn't answer my question re: Gavin's Observation skill. It's 2d10+47. Does it become 3d10+52 if I picked that?
There is a lot of confusion here. I must not have explained it correctly.
Every last skill you have is being increased based upon its conditional die. If the skill rolls a 1d10 your skill is a minimum of 10, 2d20 minimum of 20, 3d10 minimum of 30, etc...
The specialization categories allow you to take the skills under them and give them a 3d10 conditional die with a corresponding +30. If your skill is already above that bump then you get a +5 to whatever your skill is.

You can NOT pick observation as a specialization because that is a skill not a category. That skill is found under the general category of skills. You could choose surveillance as a specialization which would increase your observation to 3d10 and yes the skill level would increase to +52. you would also get Urban stealth, counterintelligence, identify target motivations, and interrogation as 3d10 +30 skills if you chose that specialization. The specializations are listed above in post 3 of this thread and are highlighted in red.

As for skewing the game away from a sniper I think you need to look at it differently. All characters get paramilitary and survival, which is why you cant choose them you already have them and the same benefit. You can be a sniper by increasing your skill and getting equipment which aids in that (e.g. a sniper rifle and scope). Since you already get 3d10 in paramilitary skills which is bumped to +30 as stated above, it would do you no good to take that as a specialization having the exact same effect.

That being said, I thought comando was one of the specializations. I will need to make a note to add that in as an option and assign skills to it. Though with the majority of those skills falling under the paramilitary and survival categories it may not be worth having a separate specialization.

User avatar
ShadoWarrior
Dark Lord of the Sith
Posts: 5315
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2017 4:22 pm
Location: Florida Space Coast

Re: Operation Medusa Discussion.

#12

Post by ShadoWarrior » Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:11 pm

What you're basically telling me is that SOE had no use for trained snipers? And my problem with your specialization mechanic is that anyone who's chosen a bunch of skills from a category, let's use one of the allowed ones (as I have a big issue with blocking half the skills, especially the military ones in a military-themed game) such as demolitions, has them at 4d10+40 so you're basically saying that you can't be specialized in something that's your background, which makes absolutely no sense. You basically don't want specialists, people highly trained in an area. Because you can't specialize in something that's already above 3d10. In effect, your "background" is your specialization, and what you're calling "specialization" is just supplemental training. Call it "support" training. Because it is NOT specialization. Or you and I have very different concepts of what specialization is. I don't have a problem with getting a boost to an entire, currently weak, category. But i do take exception to it being called something that it's really not: specialization. Because it isn't what my character is focused on.

For the record, I create and play specialized characters ... as my PCs for FFG demonstrate. Rokar is the closest I've ever gotten to a character that can do more than one thing well, and that's just a fluke of the system which allows for a pilot to also be a good ranged combatant.

User avatar
swrider
ISB Deputy Director
Posts: 7524
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2017 2:36 am
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Operation Medusa Discussion.

#13

Post by swrider » Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:20 pm

I see your point. Your background skills are your best because they represent things you have developed over years of practice and training. SOE or military specializations are areas you spend weeks training on. You have received intensive and specific training but only over a matter of weeks. Someone who has used those same skills for years will be better than someone who has six weeks training no matter how good the training is.

Now if you have the explosives handling skill you can still take the specialization and again benefits to the other related skills. If for some reason you already have all of those skills in your background they would focus their training on your in other areas where they can help you specialize.

The variance between us is that you are using a broad meaning of the word specialize and specialist where as I am meaning it to mean specialized training school and related skills.

The broader meaning of specialist that you are referring to is accomplished by using skills and increasing them. So for example many people can go to sniper school, but that does not mean they are all the same caliber of sniper. The best snipers have years of experience and often come into the filed knowing how to shoot well.

I am to swamping out your background skills if so desired, but remember your background skills are your best skills because they represent years of experience.

User avatar
ShadoWarrior
Dark Lord of the Sith
Posts: 5315
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2017 4:22 pm
Location: Florida Space Coast

Re: Operation Medusa Discussion.

#14

Post by ShadoWarrior » Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:38 pm

No, I'm fine with keeping my background skills what they are. They were carefully chosen. And while Observation is likely to be used more in the game than Navigation (which if I was min/maxing for best results in play I'd swap them) I'm keeping Navigation because as a RM officer I would have had considerably more experience and training in land navigation than in Observation. Nor am I willing to reduce my ability with boomers or burp guns. I expect I'll be using both of those skills in France (picking up an MP40 from a dead German should be easy, and who goes anywhere near a combat zone without grenades? They're great for crowd control, wrecking a radio room, or setting a trap. Which also reminds me that none of your skills covers creating or disarming traps. Something else that a commando category needs to have.

User avatar
swrider
ISB Deputy Director
Posts: 7524
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2017 2:36 am
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Operation Medusa Discussion.

#15

Post by swrider » Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:41 pm

ShadoWarrior wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:38 pm
Which also reminds me that none of your skills covers creating or disarming traps. Something else that a commando category needs to have.
Good call,
I'll add that in somewhere.

User avatar
ShadoWarrior
Dark Lord of the Sith
Posts: 5315
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2017 4:22 pm
Location: Florida Space Coast

Re: Operation Medusa Discussion.

#16

Post by ShadoWarrior » Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:01 pm

Another small bone to pick: I have 3 skills whose levels are at or below their dice but that I did use in training and improve. a 3d10+24, 2d10+20, and 2d10+12. If I apply your stage 3 rules then that +14, +10, and +2 that I gained in the intro is thrown away. Players are going to pissed at wasting time rolling for improvements on stuff that's going to get boosted anyway by even more. Unless I get to keep those increases, which your rules do not mention.

User avatar
swrider
ISB Deputy Director
Posts: 7524
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2017 2:36 am
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Operation Medusa Discussion.

#17

Post by swrider » Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:12 pm

This is a by product of the play test.

The rules we are using now are my quick start rules. For building a character mid game or if you wanted to side step the introductory adventure.
What we have been doing so far are portions of the introductory adventure, which i had developed. The introductory adventure would cover all of the skills and provide ample opportunities to increase them organically to around the levels of the quick start. Since that would be a lot of rolling and tedium for a play by post game, I skipped to the important concepts which needed to be explained and taught as opposed to drawing out the process so every skill could be increased through game play.

Skill increases at the lower levels are much easier to come by. Increasing a skill from 10 to 25 is easier than 25 to 40 which is much easier than 40 to 55 which you have seen in game play. There is no easy way to convert those increases for the way we played it out.

GMs would have the option of doing one or the other, with the introductory game being mostly to teach the rules. I imagine people would play through it once, and never again as it would be repetitive.

I needed to run the initial adventure to make sure the skill checks and game mechanics would work, or else we would have started with the "quick start rules" i.e. bumping skill levels based of the conditional dice.

If you have a suggestion for how I can reward those low level skill increases without greatly skewing the skill progression I would be happy to entertain it. One way would be to give +5 to all of the skills which increased during training.

User avatar
ShadoWarrior
Dark Lord of the Sith
Posts: 5315
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2017 4:22 pm
Location: Florida Space Coast

Re: Operation Medusa Discussion.

#18

Post by ShadoWarrior » Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:25 pm

I'll take the +5 per applicable skill. That's fair. Thanks.

User avatar
ShadoWarrior
Dark Lord of the Sith
Posts: 5315
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2017 4:22 pm
Location: Florida Space Coast

Re: Operation Medusa Discussion.

#19

Post by ShadoWarrior » Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:46 pm

I've picked Surveillance as one of my two "specializations". Since we already have two PCs with some skill in demolitions (the only one of those skills not yet above +10 is Defuse, which I guess we can muddle by without) I don't see a point in Gavin also focusing on that. While as a Royal Marine blowing stuff up appeals to him, he'll just have to let others have that fun. I'm thinking of taking Wireless as his other area of focus. Burglary is something that goes against his upbringing, and seems more along Benito's line. And he's just not all that into medical. If he'd wanted to be a doctor he would've studied that in college instead of history. Thoughts?

User avatar
swrider
ISB Deputy Director
Posts: 7524
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2017 2:36 am
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Operation Medusa Discussion.

#20

Post by swrider » Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:07 pm

That works fine. You wouldn't be the dedicated radio operator as they typically worked alone for safety. Still having an operator on the team would be beneficial.

I need more specializations. I know they had 17 in total but I can't find it what they were.

User avatar
ShadoWarrior
Dark Lord of the Sith
Posts: 5315
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2017 4:22 pm
Location: Florida Space Coast

Re: Operation Medusa Discussion.

#21

Post by ShadoWarrior » Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:09 pm

Well, I really want commando (including trap stuff), but you haven't made that area yet. Which is why I chose wireless. It's not what I want, but it's the best fit of what's left.

User avatar
swrider
ISB Deputy Director
Posts: 7524
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2017 2:36 am
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Operation Medusa Discussion.

#22

Post by swrider » Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:10 am

@ShadoWarrior @ThreeBFour @kanila @SavageBob Please note that I have added a new skill under propoganda. Writing (Articles, advertisements, etc...).

User avatar
SavageBob
Jedi Initiate
Posts: 3913
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2017 1:27 am
Location: Virginia

Re: Operation Medusa Discussion.

#23

Post by SavageBob » Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:43 am

I'm thinking Essomba will go for Medical and Propaganda. Cover story will probably be a menial laborer assigned to a Catholic hospital.

I am curious, though: Do all of our cover stories need to mesh together to justify why we're all moving about together? If so, we should probably come up with a single cover story and figure out how each of us fits into it.

User avatar
swrider
ISB Deputy Director
Posts: 7524
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2017 2:36 am
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Operation Medusa Discussion.

#24

Post by swrider » Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:06 am

That is you to the group. The problem with everyone having the same cover is that if one is blown you all your covers are blown. A good cover will allow you to justify being in places you need to be, allow you to be gone when you need to be gone, and will allow you to blend in.

User avatar
swrider
ISB Deputy Director
Posts: 7524
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2017 2:36 am
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Operation Medusa Discussion.

#25

Post by swrider » Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:14 am

@SavageBob you really like playing medics don't you? It seems like that is your most common character type, iirc.

Post Reply

Return to “Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests