General Discussion

[SanguineAngel]

Hey all, I've had a read through and think I have my bearings on the conversation.

Firstly, @Vergence I love your Hutt concept. What a perfect fit.

There's a lot of talk about Classical and Jazz by the looks of it. If we're worried that classical might not be very popular and get us the gigs my first thought was that we might be forced to play more popular music to get the jobs we need. There could be a challenge in pursuing that dream genre vs selling out, somewhere in there. Just a thought.

I guess key to "forming the band" is the players all wanting to play the same sort of thing initially and it looks we're rolling with jazz for now.

As for. Character concept, i was toying with technician but I think that's covered now with the droid tech. I think @DeepSpacer's point is well taken that we do need a bandleader or lead performer. For such a jazz scene I was thinking an instrumentalist.

Classically trained but turning his talents to the popular jazz scene for fame, fortune and the opposite sex - all the stereotypical motivations. Was thinking perhaps the chordokeylo might be a versatile and visually commanding instrument or something a little more front mannish in the batanga (I think guitar sort of thing?), lute or dorenian beshinqua.

[SavageBob]

Knowledge (Education) might represent musical training in classical Core Worlds musical styles.

Maybe classical Core World music styles doesn't translate to our classical music genre? Are there a variety of styles and some may be more bouncy and interactive? Or we can be a fusion of sorts, such as Rock-Opera in its time.

For sure. Don't take my suggested list as gospel; there's a lot of room for creative interpretation here.

For the Desire, Fear, Strength, and Weakness Motivations in character creation, can we use the provided Star Wars motivations (in all the source books) inserted into those four categories rather than Genesys Core's suggestions?

That's a good question. Some of them will probably work fine, but others might not. I'll post the Genesys motivations for a reference, and maybe use those to gauge what might work and what might not. The ultimate idea is to use Geneysis "social combat" system for any major social encounters, and that's where that system comes into play, as knowing and playing to someone's Motivations gives you bonuses in dealing with them (and vice-versa).

[SavageBob]

Loud/Aggressive is certainly an option. Something Motley Crew style, guitar-smashing Wookiee, pyrotechnics, mosh pit, etc... I am concerned, though. What is there to "watch" if it is just a few people playing instruments? Seems like background (elevator) music if there's no performer.

Well, there is music that's designed to get the audience up and dancing. Think swing or jazz, a square-dance band, etc. It certainly does add to your group's versatility if someone is able to switch to front man from time to time, but it's not a necessity. I like SanguineAngel's suggestion of a front-man instrumentalist, but a singer or dancer is fine, too. And remember that many of the greatest front-men instrumentalists doubled as singers, like Louis Armstrong.

True. I thought about that. A truly amateur band would probably be their own agent/promoter/driver.

My plan is for the agent to be an NPC (not an employee) to sort of act as a quest giver. And if it makes sense, the first adventure could be to get the business as a resource, similar to how a lot of first adventures end up with the party getting their ship for the first time. But remember the employees/droids are there if y'all need them to fill in some background roles.

[Boutrose Saba-Norr]

My concept for a classically trained musician comes from an episode of bones where the lead guitarist for a death metal band was classically trained and it showed through despite the genre not being classical music.
@SanguineAngel I love your character concept for motivations, we can even have our classically trained character have met at the star wars equivalent to Juliard, but I was thinking that my character would be a “true believer” in jazz and blues as a genre if you will, and not doing it for the fame, with his motivation being to break into the music he loves after having been forced to take a more traditional rout by his family.
It would also explain why he has to play in such venues because his family would have cut him off after he left what they consider “respectable music”

It could also explain where his employee comes from because it could be a loyal retainer that has decided to stick with him despite his family cutting him off.

I was thinking of starting as a chess because they start the game with a rank in cool, which he would use for his more improvisational solos and also start with three int for when he relies on his classical training to play the predestined set.

If I stick with the piano then he could also be the singer if we want one.

@SavageBob I also love the idea of us having an npc agent despite being nobodies. Maybe it’s becuase I’ve been watching a lot of friends recently, but even Joey has an agent and he is a relative nobody when it comes to acting.

[DeepSpacer]

To clarify, my first idea was a bluegrass/folk hippie who tries all kinds of alien music. Weird stuff. A Woodstock guy. Can do classical, but it likely bores him. I'll work on a few other ideas. Maybe a Twi'lek performer. Maybe some four-armed being playing two things at once.

[ThreeBFour]

It could quite easily be a combination of both amateur and professional. One character could be trained as a musician, just down on his luck (whatever reason is up to the player, i.e. Blacklisted by a Core World guild, Pissed off a Moff/Governor with a satirical about him, maybe abandoned by his former band for being a jackhole.) Now the character is looking for a comeback and thinks these talented amateurs can get him there.

[ThreeBFour]

As for. Character concept, i was toying with technician but I think that's covered now with the droid tech. I think @DeepSpacer's point is well taken that we do need a bandleader or lead performer. For such a jazz scene I was thinking an instrumentalist.

Classically trained but turning his talents to the popular jazz scene for fame, fortune and the opposite sex - all the stereotypical motivations. Was thinking perhaps the chordokeylo might be a versatile and visually commanding instrument or something a little more front mannish in the batanga (I think guitar sort of thing?), lute or dorenian beshinqua.

I finally remembered the name I was looking for in regards to this concept. Kenny G

[Vergence]

Since classical doesn't have to be our own 'classical genre' IRL but in the Star Wars universe, it can become anything we really need it to be. The advantages are Core World acceptance which may translate into more credits. But, the genre doesn't really matter to me (open-minded), just trying to cohesively tie in all the concepts. We could be a punk band playing Agitators and incite riots everywhere we go for all I care Returning to singer game mechanics, we have to consider what skill will fit the band theme. Charm? Yes, Chiss start with a rank in Cool but also start with Presence 1 (FFG not thinking characteristics through).

@SavageBob I agree with some motivations working and others not. I just remember struggling with Genesys' motivation selection options when making a Terrinoth character. When making a band manager Hutt Advocate, the EotE Core & Colonist book didn't really have many fits with my concept but, almost all of the Smuggler's did. EX: Desire: Power - success means having the knowledge, power, prestige, and contacts in numerous forms; Fear: Credits - the lack thereof; Strength: Beating the Odds - the drive to pursue challenges; and Weakness: Victory - enjoys triumphing over others. In my opinion, spending advantages to discover PC motivations to gain social skill boosts for social combat would still work with the example.

[DeepSpacer]

@SavageBob How do you imagine stage performances being played out? Sort of passe, where each PC makes a check and that sums up the performance? Or, a more active back and forth, one-act building on the previous act, trying different stagemanship for each venue?

[ThreeBFour]

@SavageBob How do you imagine stage performances being played out? Sort of passe, where each PC makes a check and that sums up the performance? Or, a more active back and forth, one-act building on the previous act, trying different stagemanship for each venue?

Personally I can see it like the Blues Brothers taking a gig in the wrong place and having stuff thrown at them until they realize they can play Rawhide all night long.

[DeepSpacer]

I finally remembered the name I was looking for in regards to this concept. Kenny G

well, if it is soft easy listening music that we're aiming for, and I would probably make a silent twi'lek dancer, or something, to go along with it. Not much point in having Kenny G meet Motley Crue, or vice versa. I'd rather not shoehorn one into playing with the other.

[Vergence]

@SavageBob How do you imagine stage performances being played out? Sort of passe, where each PC makes a check and that sums up the performance? Or, a more active back and forth, one-act building on the previous act, trying different stagemanship for each venue?

Personally I can see it like the Blues Brothers taking a gig in the wrong place and having stuff thrown at them until they realize they can play Rawhide all night long.

While humorous, I mechanically view that situation as a band manager rolling a despair for a Outer Rim check on selecting a venue Its a great question DeepSpacer and I agree with your assessment. Knowing the stage mechanical structure gist will greatly aid creation. I was imagining it like a massive combat check after everybody's individual rolls to determine upgrades/downgrades & boost/setbacks. I could see the 'star' using the Figurehead spec, leadership or even charm being the base and other talents aiding the situation.

[SavageBob]

Since classical doesn't have to be our own 'classical genre' IRL but in the Star Wars universe, it can become anything we really need it to be. The advantages are Core World acceptance which may translate into more credits. But, the genre doesn't really matter to me (open-minded), just trying to cohesively tie in all the concepts. We could be a punk band playing Agitators and incite riots everywhere we go for all I care Returning to singer game mechanics, we have to consider what skill will fit the band theme. Charm? Yes, Chiss start with a rank in Cool but also start with Presence 1 (FFG not thinking characteristics through).

I do want you to all know each other before play begins, so attending the same musical school might be one way to represent that. Maybe the Star Wars equivalent of Juliard, as Boutrose suggested. Some of you loved it, some of you hated it; maybe some of you got there through well-connected parents, while others were lower-class folks who got scholarships, or hippies who flunked out. That's one possibility, but we do need some sort of connection: "We all went to this school" / "we all played backup for this famous person" / "We're all fill-in players for this orchestra" or what have you.

@SavageBob I agree with some motivations working and others not. I just remember struggling with Genesys' motivation selection options when making a Terrinoth character. When making a band manager Hutt Advocate, the EotE Core & Colonist book didn't really have many fits with my concept but, almost all of the Smuggler's did. EX: Desire: Power - success means having the knowledge, power, prestige, and contacts in numerous forms; Fear: Credits - the lack thereof; Strength: Beating the Odds - the drive to pursue challenges; and Weakness: Victory - enjoys triumphing over others. In my opinion, spending advantages to discover PC motivations to gain social skill boosts for social combat would still work with the example.

I've posted a summary of the Genesys Motivations in the House Rules. But, yeah, if you can work it out to use Star Wars motivations, that is perfectly fine. The ones you list all look fine to me.

[SavageBob]

@SavageBob How do you imagine stage performances being played out? Sort of passe, where each PC makes a check and that sums up the performance? Or, a more active back and forth, one-act building on the previous act, trying different stagemanship for each venue?

I'm thinking it will be run as the Genesys social scene rules, meaning each PC will get a crack at a crowd with some sort of average Strain Threshold. Or, if playing for a specific patron, that person's Strain Threshold. For basic checks, like "We busk for a few hours to get credits," there would just be a basic difficulty and roll, but for the big scenes, the social combat rules should work. I'm not sure how the "opposing side" would socially attack your characters yet, though. We may have to play with things until we figure out a system that works since this is all so novel.

[DeepSpacer]

It could quite easily be a combination of both amateur and professional. One character could be trained as a musician, just down on his luck (whatever reason is up to the player, i.e. Blacklisted by a Core World guild, Pissed off a Moff/Governor with a satirical about him, maybe abandoned by his former band for being a jackhole.) Now the character is looking for a comeback and thinks these talented amateurs can get him there.

IDK, the former professional using the band as a vehicle to return to prominence falls short for me. As a character, once you get back to success, the need for the vehicle dissipates. They were just a means to an end. There seems to be no buy-in to the members, the cause, or the music. I like to think of it (session zero) as being everyone in it for the same reason, a common bond, Fighting For a Cause, etc.

I like the blacklisted concept, where you have to play Underground and avoid the public Spotlight. Possibly, under an alias or in disguise.Maybe trumped up charges against him/them.

[Vergence]

@SavageBob How do you imagine stage performances being played out? Sort of passe, where each PC makes a check and that sums up the performance? Or, a more active back and forth, one-act building on the previous act, trying different stagemanship for each venue?

I'm thinking it will be run as the Genesys social scene rules, meaning each PC will get a crack at a crowd with some sort of average Strain Threshold. Or, if playing for a specific patron, that person's Strain Threshold. For basic checks, like "We busk for a few hours to get credits," there would just be a basic difficulty and roll, but for the big scenes, the social combat rules should work. I'm not sure how the "opposing side" would socially attack your characters yet, though. We may have to play with things until we figure out a system that works since this is all so novel.

Upon success & advantage strain infliction being mechanically set, if just one crowd threshold target, maybe the difficultly should set as the general venue's criticism level with setbacks being 'never heard of the band before' or 'new genre acceptance' for example? And using the progressive strain reduction as levels of achieving various goals?

Continuing with the synergizing genre concepts, looking at the music genre Star Wars link, if we create or select one from that list, we can easily add the name jazz to the end of the name for flow. Also, if we want to include the folk lore aspect, that could mechanically be the vocals. Classical Jazz with Duro-Blues Folk vocals at one venue and the next Classical Onderon Jungle Folk etc.

[SavageBob]

Upon success & advantage strain infliction being mechanically set, if just one crowd threshold target, maybe the difficultly should set as the general venue's criticism level with setbacks being 'never heard of the band before' or 'new genre acceptance' for example? And using the progressive strain reduction as levels of achieving various goals?

Could work. Let me refamiliarize myself with the Genesys rules. But just remember that these types of scenes will be mixed with lots of other stuff, so we'll still need some party diversity, at least among PCs (some combat, some roguishness, some technical acumen, etc.). Unless these are NPC employee roles.

Continuing with the synergizing genre concepts, looking at the music genre Star Wars link, if we create or select one from that list, we can easily add the name jazz to the end of the name for flow. Also, if we want to include the folk lore aspect, that could mechanically be the vocals. Classical Jazz with Duro-Blues Folk vocals at one venue and the next Classical Onderon Jungle Folk etc.

One possibility is that you all may have your own preferred genres you play, but you come together to play genre X out of necessity, the same way a classically trained clarinetist, a hippie drummer, and a brass band trombonist might make ends meet by forming a swing band and playing bar mitzvahs.

[DeepSpacer]

One possibility is that you all may have your own preferred genres you play, but you come together to play genre X out of necessity, the same way a classically trained clarinetist, a hippie drummer, and a brass band trombonist might make ends meet by forming a swing band and playing bar mitzvahs.

True. But when 'ends DO meet', there's no need to continue sticking with each other. Each out for themselves, not really liking what they do, but only doing it out of necessity. Mercenary.

Me? I'd rather have new artists thinking they're hot-stuff and ready to take on the galaxy. Some little group starting with nothing and moving upwards towards greater things. Traditional.....The Beatles, Nirvana, etc... Dedicated to the music, or the style of music, or embracing all styles.

[SavageBob]

Me? I'd rather have new artists thinking they're hot-stuff and ready to take on the galaxy. Some little group starting with nothing and moving upwards towards greater things. Traditional.....The Beatles, Nirvana, etc... Dedicated to the music, or the style of music, or embracing all styles.

That would certainly be more in keeping with my original inspiration for the game. Atlanta and The Get Down are both about up-and-coming hip hop artists trying to make it big. One way to square the circle if you all want different musical training would be to say you've all come together for some reason (music school, or backup players for someone, or whatever). By intention or accident, you've invented a new style of music, one that fuses several genres (as hip hop fused disco with electronic beatmaking). "What is jatz-go? It's like Coruscanti classical meets Kitonak folk music, but set to a jizz-wailing beat. Totally koovy."

Being so innovative might explain why you're only playing smaller venues at this point; not only are you trying to make it big, but you're also trying to find a market for your new style of music. (Again, this was the problem faced by 1970s rappers, 1940s rockers, and early-1920s jazz musicians.)

[DeepSpacer]

Me? I'd rather have new artists thinking they're hot-stuff and ready to take on the galaxy. Some little group starting with nothing and moving upwards towards greater things. Traditional.....The Beatles, Nirvana, etc... Dedicated to the music, or the style of music, or embracing all styles.

That would certainly be more in keeping with my original inspiration for the game. Atlanta and The Get Down are both about up-and-coming hip hop artists trying to make it big. One way to square the circle if you all want different musical training would be to say you've all come together for some reason (music school, or backup players for someone, or whatever). By intention or accident, you've invented a new style of music, one that fuses several genres (as hip hop fused disco with electronic beatmaking). "What is jatz-go? It's like Coruscanti classical meets Kitonak folk music, but set to a jizz-wailing beat. Totally koovy."

Coming together to make "new" music. Certainly appealing to me. The druggie-hippie folk artist fits into that. I'll work on a few other concepts, too.

[ThreeBFour]

Has anyone listened to or watched 'The Piano Guys' or '2 Cellos' on YouTube? Both groups do a couple of mixup tunes with classical music and something more modern. I enjoy both of them and several of their videos are quite entertaining.
Might be something like your ideas for our band.

[SavageBob]

A couple of thoughts for the morning:

First, remember that the list of skills above are only suggestions. I think there's some concern that too many of the concepts folks are considering are Intellect-based and that the party won't be diverse enough. I think three Intellect-based characters would lead to problems, but two with different foci should be fine (say, an Archaeologist who "knows things" and a Droid Tech who "does things").

From the ideas that have been proposed so far, I think a combo of Archaeologist–Droid Tech–Advocate–and one of Charmer/Performer/Ambassador/Figurehead/some other Presence-based spec should be just fine.

A classically trained musician could be represented by Knowledge (Education), but it could just as easily be Charm. In fact, I'm perfectly OK allowing Charm for pretty much any instrument, and it seems particular appropriate for someone who's used to hobnobbing with aristocrats from the Core.

[Boutrose Saba-Norr]

oh yea i wasn't taking into account that most of us were doing int based abilities, i'll have to think on that

[ThreeBFour]

So far I am looking at a Drabatan from Dawn of Rebellion with a 233223 Build. I liked their back ground with music being part of their lives. Plus they come with a rank of Charm.

[Vergence]

So far I am looking at a Drabatan from Dawn of Rebellion with a 233223 Build. I liked their back ground with music being part of their lives. Plus they come with a rank of Charm.

Yeah, the species was my go to for Agitator. You may want to consider the racial ability 'Big Noise' too (only works on Leadership & Coercion). Kind of ideal if you're using leadership as the 'Star'.