Please simplify the force (game mechanics) for me

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crazybirdman
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Please simplify the force (game mechanics) for me

#1

Post by crazybirdman » Fri Apr 27, 2018 5:58 am

I'm reading Force & Destiny, but some things still aren't clear to me. If someone can give me a general understanding of how the force works in this game, or answer these question, that would help me out a lot.

What is your Force rating? And what is the benefit of having a higher one?

What is the difference between Force talents and force powers?

what happens if a non-force user buys a F&D talent tree?

I apologize if the answers to my questions are just further in the book than I am.

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Re: Please simplify the force (game mechanics) for me

#2

Post by ShadoWarrior » Fri Apr 27, 2018 8:53 am

1. All FaD characters begin with a Force Rating of 1 due to having taken a FaD starting career. (Those that take starting careers from EotE or AoR do not.) A GM can grant (gift) a higher starting rating, and many GMs do so. I start my Padawans at 2.

2. A Force talent is just a talent that requires that the user be Force sensitive. Force powers are your actual magical abilities.

3. Since they did not begin with a FaD tree they do not gain the FR1 for having started with a FaD tree. Other than that it's the same as picking any other tree as a secondary tree.

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Re: Please simplify the force (game mechanics) for me

#3

Post by SanguineAngel » Fri Apr 27, 2018 11:00 am

Even more simply, your Force Rating is the number of Force dice you have available to roll to activate force powers.

Each for dice has pips on every side. Some sides 1 pip. Some sides 2 pips. They are a mix of dark and light. When you use a force power you roll the force dice (a number of dice up to your force rating) and then spend the pips you rolled to activate the power.

You can usually use either light or dark points but using dark gains conflict, when may lead you down the dark side.

Force Talents do not require you to roll force dice to activate. Simply, as Shado says, that you have a force rating at all.


Hope that also helps a bit!

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Re: Please simplify the force (game mechanics) for me

#4

Post by DeepSpacer » Fri Apr 27, 2018 11:45 am

crazybirdman wrote:
Fri Apr 27, 2018 5:58 am
I'm reading Force & Destiny, but some things still aren't clear to me. If someone can give me a general understanding of how the force works in this game, or answer these question, that would help me out a lot.
No problem. The FFG books are poorly put together, IMO, with information scattered across several sections instead of in one place. You're not alone. I learned more from asking questions from others and using the FFG Forums than reading the actual book.
crazybirdman wrote:
Fri Apr 27, 2018 5:58 am
What is your Force rating? And what is the benefit of having a higher one?
A benefit is that with a Force Rating above '1', you have TWO Force Dice to make use of. Many powers require one 'Pip' to maintain it and it really, really helps to have multiple dice to (for example) maintain one protective power every round (commit one die) while also doing an additional thing rolling the 2nd die. Also, you COULD roll two pips on the roll of one die, but odds are MUCH better to get more pips rolling more dice. Additionally, some Force Power Trees (Bind, Battle Meditation) require Force Rating (FR) 2 or higher to access them.

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Re: Please simplify the force (game mechanics) for me

#5

Post by crazybirdman » Fri Apr 27, 2018 2:08 pm

Thanks guys!

So Force talents are bought with XP just like everything else on the talent tree, but how to you guy/buy a force power?

Also, after reading a bit more of the book, I'm curious as to how much XP one would have to have before their character 'felt' like a Jedi knight? Seems like it would have to be a lot :(

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Re: Please simplify the force (game mechanics) for me

#6

Post by SanguineAngel » Fri Apr 27, 2018 2:34 pm

The force powers each have their own tree bought with XP. They do have very have minimum force ratings as a barrier to entry but most are FR1+. Unlike specialisations, you don't need to pay to access them, just pay the base power XP.

In game often opportunities to learn a new powers are provided via story elements - from a mentor or a holocron or something similar. This is what the Crb seems to recommend if I remember correctly and how I like to play.

During char gen there's no limit to the # of power you can buy into.

Knight level play in the Crb is stated to be at 150xp above your Starting species xp

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Re: Please simplify the force (game mechanics) for me

#7

Post by SavageBob » Fri Apr 27, 2018 3:11 pm

I second SanguineAngel. But note that Jedi (and even Padawans) are very powerful characters XP-wise. The system is designed for the Dark Times and Imperial era, when Jedi are exceedingly rare, and learning the powers of the Force is a daunting task. If you want to play a character who is already a full-fledged Jedi Knight, even "Knight Level" XP won't really get you there. You'd need to find a high-powered game with a lot of starting XP; how much you need to make a Jedi has been a matter of debate since the system launched.

As you're new to the system, it might actually be good to start lower-powered and learn how the mechanics work. That way, as you get more powers and abilities, you get familiar with them and how they operate!

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Re: Please simplify the force (game mechanics) for me

#8

Post by ShadoWarrior » Fri Apr 27, 2018 4:16 pm

Yeah, what Bob (and Angel) said. To be able to approximate the capabilities of canon Padawans at even age 14-15, they need to have at least FR2 and preferably 40-70+ XP worth of powers and talents. A Padawan like Obi-wan in TPM, just on the verge of (or just past) the Trials needs to have at least 150 earned XP to properly reflect the capabilities we've seen in the canon. Asides from poorly organized and written books, as Deep mentioned, a huge issue with FFG is that the FaD book has failed to provide guidance on what a GM should do to set games in a setting other than during the Imperial era. And trained Jedi will never, ever, be "balanced" with non-Jedi in this game system, because you have to gift them immense amounts of XP and/or abilities that is not necessary for a GM to do with non-Jedi PCs (and a GM must not even try to "balance" things, else they'll end up with terribly overpowered non-Jedi).

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Re: Please simplify the force (game mechanics) for me

#9

Post by crazybirdman » Fri Apr 27, 2018 5:25 pm

Thanks again guys. To be clear, I don't want to play a Jedi Knight, just curious as to what it would take to get to that level.

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Re: Please simplify the force (game mechanics) for me

#10

Post by swrider » Fri Apr 27, 2018 5:28 pm

I would love to play a Jedi Knight. It is just hard to find a game that is actually set up for that. A GM would have to deal with exceptionally overpowered characters.... Perhaps that will be my next game I start once one of my others finishes.

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Re: Please simplify the force (game mechanics) for me

#11

Post by crazybirdman » Fri Apr 27, 2018 8:19 pm

A few more questions:
What is the point of morality (compared to Duty & Obligation). would one player ever have all 3 or is that up to the GM?

The only thing stopping someone from buying every force power is XP? and the GM?

So you don't need any force die to perform a force talent (unless the talent specifically says to)

And non-force related questions:
How long do online game usually last? I've played in a few and they only lasted a bit more than a month

How many online games to people normally play in at a time?

When is a 'session' over? (for considering once a session abilities)

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Re: Please simplify the force (game mechanics) for me

#12

Post by swrider » Fri Apr 27, 2018 8:34 pm

crazybirdman wrote:
Fri Apr 27, 2018 8:19 pm
A few more questions:
What is the point of morality (compared to Duty & Obligation). would one player ever have all 3 or is that up to the GM?
morality tracks how good or bad a character is. It helps judge if a character is falling towards the dark side or moving towards the light. It is possible to have all three mechanics and they all work different but I personally don't like to use any of them so stick to one in my games.
crazybirdman wrote:
Fri Apr 27, 2018 8:19 pm
The only thing stopping someone from buying every force power is XP? and the GM?
Yup. But you only have so many force pips at one time and so can only do so much in any one turn.
crazybirdman wrote:
Fri Apr 27, 2018 8:19 pm
So you don't need any force die to perform a force talent (unless the talent specifically says to)
Ill let the others answer this as I am not as sure.
crazybirdman wrote:
Fri Apr 27, 2018 8:19 pm
And non-force related questions:
How long do online game usually last? I've played in a few and they only lasted a bit more than a month
Most the games on this board last at least a year. We recently updated the active games list to give the starting month and year of all the current games. However we have a lot of new games and this past year a lot of long standing games came to an end. My fight or flight game lasted several years and my rebellion radio laster 6-8 months when I had to end it because of the birth of my second child and a lack of free time. I have never seen a game on this forum last only a month.

Games can go a long time as long as players remain curious. A single player being absent for several days without notice and destroy all momentum in a game and cause it to end as others leave also. We try to avoid this by letting other run PC for individuals who will be gone or having the GM run them as NPCs. We prefer to do it with prior knowledge from the player but have had to take PCs over because players disappear. If I know I will be gone, I'll leave instructions for what my PCs are doing or planning to do in the short term. Play by post is slow paced so not a lot happens over a few day time frame in most cases.
crazybirdman wrote:
Fri Apr 27, 2018 8:19 pm
How many online games to people normally play in at a time?
As many as they feel they can commit too. Some people play only in one, some play in 5-6. I am currently a player in two and running 3 games as a GM.
crazybirdman wrote:
Fri Apr 27, 2018 8:19 pm
When is a 'session' over? (for considering once a session abilities)
It is usually dependent on story and is at the discretion of the GM. Session is a vague term. Many people on here think I don't start a new one often enough saying a session is equivalent to 2 hours of real life game time. My real life games usually go between 8-12 hours so what I consider a session is very different than some of the other GMs. Often players will ask and I will let them reset even though the session is not over. Another thing I do is a session is complete when I award XP.

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Re: Please simplify the force (game mechanics) for me

#13

Post by Matt Skywalker » Fri Apr 27, 2018 8:37 pm

You do need a force dice as that comes with the required force rating
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Re: Please simplify the force (game mechanics) for me

#14

Post by SavageBob » Fri Apr 27, 2018 8:38 pm

crazybirdman wrote:
Fri Apr 27, 2018 8:19 pm
A few more questions:
What is the point of morality (compared to Duty & Obligation). would one player ever have all 3 or is that up to the GM?
It might get hairy to use all three, since it's a lot of bookkeeping, so it's possible, but ultimately up to the GM. If Han Solo had been training to be a Jedi instead of Luke, he likely would have had all three mechanics by the time of Empire or Jedi. I generally limit my games to two of the three.
crazybirdman wrote:
Fri Apr 27, 2018 8:19 pm
The only thing stopping someone from buying every force power is XP? and the GM?
Correct in most instances. There are a handful of Force powers that require a specific Force Rating to access, as well.
crazybirdman wrote:
Fri Apr 27, 2018 8:19 pm
So you don't need any force die to perform a force talent (unless the talent specifically says to)
Well, you need access to a Force die (that is, you need a Force Rating). If I go Smuggler: Pilot and then pick up Warrior: Aggressor, I can't use the Force talents, because I don't have a Force Rating (which grants the Force die). But you can use such talents so long as you have a Force Rating even if you've committed all your Force dice to doing other things.


I'll let some of the older hands answer your PbP-oriented questions.

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Re: Please simplify the force (game mechanics) for me

#15

Post by ShadoWarrior » Fri Apr 27, 2018 9:59 pm

I'm one of those that feel that Rider doesn't break sessions frequently enough. But he makes up for this by awarding lots of XP (and duty if AoR) when he does have a break. It balances out in the end, so I've not had any legitimate gripes. Just takes getting used to. A "session" for a typical tabletop game is usually 4-6 hours. Back when I was able to play at a real table, our sessions often ran 8+ hours. And when I was in my early twenties our sessions could go from Friday at 6pm til 2-3am, break for sleep, then start again at 11am-ish and go on til late Saturday night or early Sunday morning. As the players in a group get older and have more RL commitments, sessions get shorter and shorter until folks just can't take the time to meet face to face at all. Hence PbP.

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Re: Please simplify the force (game mechanics) for me

#16

Post by DeepSpacer » Fri Apr 27, 2018 11:37 pm

crazybirdman wrote:
Fri Apr 27, 2018 8:19 pm
What is the point of morality (compared to Duty & Obligation). would one player ever have all 3 or is that up to the GM?
One different mechanic for each book (Age of R, Edge, FaD). Morality is SUPPOSED to measure a jedi (or other) character's swaying between the light and dark side. Hence, if you go really high on Morality, then you get lightside bonuses. If you do lots of bad stuff and Morality drops lower, then you'll get some darkside things if it gets below 30. However, they introduce a +1d10 morality roll for positive points at the end of each session. So, you could do some bad stuff, accumulate 6 points of Conflict (darkside points, for the lack of a better term), but then roll an 8 on the 1d10 die and actually GAIN morality instead of losing it. It's a little goofy. It's their best solution as to how to measure Light vs Dark, but probably not the best solution.

Yes, in a mixed group with three players, they could possibly each (separately) have Duty, Morality, and Obligation. More bookkeeping for the GM. It is tough to mix a Jedi with other non-jedi for that reason. Yes, you could have a Jedi character fighting for the Rebellion and have both morality and Duty. Those 3 mechanics are supposed to 'drive' things and be sources of purpose for the campaign.
Mix it up too much and it gets confusing, IMO.
crazybirdman wrote:
Fri Apr 27, 2018 8:19 pm
The only thing stopping someone from buying every force power is XP? and the GM?
Yes, it is an XP-drain. An Edge character would have ONE Talent Tree to pursue. A basic FaD pc would have XP spent over his Career Spec AND a whole bunch of possibly force powers. Can you imagine how long (and how much XP) it'd take to be moderately good at a handful of powers while also advancing your Career tree and Skills? Forever! Hence, many GM's start giving extra starting XP in FaD campaigns. It is the system we are given. Could be better.
crazybirdman wrote:
Fri Apr 27, 2018 8:19 pm
And non-force related questions:
How long do online game usually last? I've played in a few and they only lasted a bit more than a month
How many online games to people normally play in at a time?
When is a 'session' over? (for considering once a session abilities)
As you can see (here) many of our PBP's go on a long time relative to others. Most people play in a few games, just be wary about having time NOW to play in (let's say) five games but then see your free time erode in a few weeks or a month. Just need to estimate what you can do at your busiest time.

Sessions are great when they end somewhat frequently and dole out XP & such. Yeah, Swrider goes longer but give out a lot in a big chunk. It's good either way. Mostly, it ends when there's a break in the story/plot.

At a tabletop in one evening, you can do extra side missions, run errands, and such. But on PBP, one side mission can take a month or longer to play so you can't do too many of those.

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Re: Please simplify the force (game mechanics) for me

#17

Post by SanguineAngel » Sat Apr 28, 2018 7:34 am

I'd explain morality less as good vs bad and more specifically light vs dark.

Conflict isn't just a measure of doing bad things but of doing things that cause your character internal conflict.

For example, You might kill someone in self defence. Doing so is probably justifiable but you would likely accrue conflict all the same.

However, conflict often represents an opportunity for reflection, rather than a guaranteed dive into the dark. So your character might feel conflicted about something but ultimately resolve the matter positively on reflection and learn from the experience or might dwell on it and drift into a dark place. This is mechanically driven by the roll of a D10 and up to the player to interpret into role play.

A player can accrue so much conflict that they inevitably drift closer to the dark side. Exceeding 10 conflict means that no matter what you roll at the end of the session you will always roll under conflict and so lower morality.

Also worth noting that you don't face any conflict generating issues, you don't roll morality.

Edit:
Last thing. There are benefits to every aspect of the morality - light paragon, dark paragon or neither. It is absolutely not the case that you should view light as the correct direct or vise versa. But your characters actions, though influenced by their alignment, may not necessarily be dictated by it and motivations are seldom as "I am bad so I do bad things". Just like a character in the Empire might be a good person upholding the rule of law.

Just like obligation and duty, morality seems to be a tool from FFG for encouraging role play through mechanical reward and hopefully enriching hour gameplay experience. Its another source of character inspiration and you are rewarded whatever you choose to do with it, just by using it.

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